I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Transformer sizing for new systems Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). Both are lighted. Price Received. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. It can be a great secondary power supply for lighted buildings, signals, and other accessories. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. Besides the train and track, accessories provide a lot of fun and animation to any setup. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. Classification/marker lights on the PRR steam engine, For Sale: Lionel 6-11127 Legacy Southern Pacific GS-4 Daylight, Lionel Bethlehem Steel slag car and ATLAS NYC Baggage car, Lionel O 2333790 TrainWorld & RBP Trains Chris Raines -Exclusive - Katy LEGACY ES44AC #2021, Converting MTH Rail king GS-4 PROTO 2 to ERR Cruise Commander, The Harpers Ferry Layout II - Backdrop panels completed. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. Effort. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. I would check yoour connections and wire size, just to be safe. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. Ive talked about why here. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. Unlimited Members, sign in to enjoy sitewide access. Anyway if it takes me 100 years to finish this thing one thing is for sure I will not have to worry about powering anything and everything. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. Wire gauges are coded by their size. Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. What does a Lionel transformer do? There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. However, if you begin adding more than 1 or 2 cars, be sure to get some extra track, or your longer train will be chasing its tail very quickly. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! :-). The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Effort. And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. All power supplies will be rated for volts, amps, and watts. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. Lionel Rolling Stock Identification Guide. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. Also, you wont be able to take advantage of independent control of multiple engines on the same track without a digital controller. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. Mark. However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. Just not quite as much. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. "What size wire should I use?" My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). This diagram shows all of the controls and the pinout for the Lionel RW transformer. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. The circuit breaker should trip with a click and the transformer should go dead. Thanks! Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. My current layout uses about 28 sections of track (Lionel o-27). Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. If they do, follow their recommendations. This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Get the newest photos, videos, stories, and more from Trains.com brands. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. Take the hint. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! What type is your old transformer? I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. The multi-conductor wire is also available. Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. They are fun to have. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful! The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. If you like, tell us more about yourself. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. This is why my wife loves me so. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m Doug, there's definitely room for the liberal arts approach to the hobby--I have a journalism degree; how I became a computer technician was pretty much an accident. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. Its a bargain at that price. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. And that means theyre affordable. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. This thing has more power then I will ever need. Three conductor wire is common for household use. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. Plug one of your transformers into each Fixed in. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. Amperes = VA/Secondary Volts or 40VA/28V = 1.43 amperes. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. Its a good transformer. I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. Lionel introduced a few LionChief Plus 2.0 starter sets in 2022. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? Sell Your Trains Yourself At Train Shows. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. Just not quite as much. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) We're sorry. If you have a starter set and have had thoughts like this, youre not alone. the amount of track is not what is important here. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). Been there, done that. electronically controlled outputs. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website.