Think about movement. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. LONDON. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . Also - use a good thinset. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. It only takes a minute to sign up. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. the cost of the tile job. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. Do you have any pictures? What? To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. Will use the Schluter Shower system. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. I'm thirsty. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. You are wise to use a cement board. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. On the downside, the cement boards are heavy, somewhat difficult to cut and can leave abrasive sandy crumbs that can damage tubs and shower bases if youre not careful. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Yes. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. To line niche shelves, for instance. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. It fell right off? Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. After installing your mud bed, make sure it is fully cured before applying Aquadefense. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. How do I connect these two faces together? Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Contact us: 888-472-4588 This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? On a vertical surface, very little moisture . We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. #2. The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. See the foam bench and the corners. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. rev2023.3.3.43278. I imagine we could share some good stories. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. Hang the cement boar. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. 1. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? I've never had a failure. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . In my. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? We sponge water onto the cement board. However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. . 3. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. Step 7: Cut the Tile. Fixing that is not that easy though. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. Why is this the case? Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. 4. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers.
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