You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. Theres tracks everywhere. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Women control our lives. They kill big animals. So let's let's go to the phones. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. "Of those three to five reports,. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. It doesn't happen as much anymore. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. Right. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. Peter Biello: Hmm. I found a second scat scent both to him. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. New Hampshire Public Radio | The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Here it is. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. What do you think that. Maps of Trapping Take by Town 1994 to 2004. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Patrick Tate: Well. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. There are corollaries in other states. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. So what a neat experience. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. Mountain lion or cat running across. A lot of times. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Peter Biello: Yeah. Have it reported down in the Keene area. We want answers. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. And you know all that. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. So. Administrative Links. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. I mean they're a survivor. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Can you look into this picture. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Thank you. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! John. Thank you very much for being here. 1,470 likes. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Peter Biello: Well yeah. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. By Eric Orff. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. What kind of animal is that. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. I don't know if she still is. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. We'd love to have you in the queue. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. That's next time on one day. John thanks. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. 19 And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Rick your thoughts. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . And it was unmistakable. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Really appreciate it. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. First off if the standard for an agency to go forward with the public and put out a press release that them outlines here their believers are going to say I told you they'd been here the whole time. Love hearing these stories. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. And the cougar embodies that. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. And so. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. Well within there. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . We'll push great photos to the front page. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. Thanks for a great thanks. Think you've seen a mountain lion. So what counts as verifiable evidence? I'll send it to you. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. The report came in from a conservation officer. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. They sent it already. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. Good morning guys. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. Sam Evans Brown. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. Let us know your story and share your photos! Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. Yes. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? It's listed as population of least concern. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Caller: Oh yeah. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. You don't know what's going on. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. They are the same thing. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. Have you seen one. So you want identifiable backgrounds. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. I have one that's more elaborate than that. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. There was a lot of DNA evidence. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Less successful males roam further. Chartered 1973; Member of District 44-H; . So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Well thanks for sharing. And why would they what. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Patrick Tate: Yes. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. She is renowned for tracking. They just end up in these places. I'm Peter Biello. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. Caller: I do. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. The brother and sister big cats have lived . Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. 44-H Links. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. And it's not really strong. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. 44-N Links. Okay. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. Do they travel. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. Give today. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. That's pretty elaborate. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. Thank you. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Tim Yeah. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously.
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